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mcmagostini
Initiate

Brazil


64 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  01:15:55  Show Profile  Visit mcmagostini's Homepage  Send mcmagostini an ICQ Message  Click to see mcmagostini's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hi folks.

Why is that in Quake3 , for instance, i get 138 FPS with the 3dfx
OGL ICD and "just" 114 with the Mesa one at the same configuration
driver-wise and game wise?

Still about the Stripes thingy. Whenever i set the 3d Filter quality
to high i got horizontal stripes on screen. No matter DX or OGL/Glide.
If i set to normal the stripes are gone.
I can let it to high, if i also set the FSAA to single-chip. but i get
performance drop =(
Any ideias?

Using:
WinXP PRO
Amigamerlin 3.0XP
Voodoo5 5500 PCI
TBred 1700+@3200+
512RAM 333@433 2-2-2-6

[]s
Matheus Agostini

AmigaMerlin / SFFT / MesaFX
Sempron64 3000+, 512MB DDR400 2,5-3-3-11
Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Rev 3100)
ASUS K8N4-E
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  07:50:02  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmagostini

Hi folks.

Why is that in Quake3 , for instance, i get 138 FPS with the 3dfx
OGL ICD and "just" 114 with the Mesa one at the same configuration
driver-wise and game wise?
Quake has no notion of FXT1 texture compression. The 3dfx ICD maps S3TC (that quake uses) to FXT1, as opposed to Mesa, which does FXT1 for FXT1 and S3TC for S3TC. Therefore, Quake doesn't use texture compression with Mesa. Actually, Kool wrote a patch to cheat S3TC with FXT1 in Mesa, but it's not embedded into the public releases.


Regards,
Daniel Borca
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mcmagostini
Initiate

Brazil


64 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  08:23:24  Show Profile  Visit mcmagostini's Homepage  Send mcmagostini an ICQ Message  Click to see mcmagostini's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the explanation Daniel ;)

What you say is that Mesa can do s3tc compression but the voodoos
can't we all know. Does that mean MesaFX works for other cards?
Ones that support s3tc, i.e. ?

Do you know if this patch is gonna get public someday?

Other than that. Do you have any ideias on the stripes problem
i mentioned before? It happens all the times in the given
conditions and bother me not be able to use 3d filter at high =/

TIA
[]s
Matheus.

AmigaMerlin / SFFT / MesaFX
Sempron64 3000+, 512MB DDR400 2,5-3-3-11
Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Rev 3100)
ASUS K8N4-E
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  13:43:39  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmagostini

What you say is that Mesa can do s3tc compression but the voodoos
can't we all know.
The Voodoos can (specifically, the Napalm core - V4/5). Since I saw the V5 in your signature I thought that might be one of the reasons MesaFX is a bit slower in Quake.

quote:
Does that mean MesaFX works for other cards?
Ones that support s3tc, i.e. ?

Mesa works for a variety of cards. MesaFX is Mesa for Voodoos.
quote:
Do you know if this patch is gonna get public someday?

Yes, maybe... just maybe...
I am pretty reluctant in including it because FXT1 and S3TC have different compression ratios. We haven't had the time to investigate properly all the implications. That's all. However, there is a compilation define which enables the hack. Just look into mesafxev.txt at my situ.

quote:
Other than that. Do you have any ideias on the stripes problem
i mentioned before?

I'll try to look into the matter.

Regards,
Daniel Borca

Edited by - dborca on 22/04/2004 17:16:13
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koolsmoky
Average

101 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  17:05:15  Show Profile  Visit koolsmoky's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmagostini
Still about the Stripes thingy. Whenever i set the 3d Filter quality
to high i got horizontal stripes on screen. No matter DX or OGL/Glide.
If i set to normal the stripes are gone.
I can let it to high, if i also set the FSAA to single-chip. but i get
performance drop =(
Any ideias?



'High' is a 2x2 box filter which uses the adjacent 2 horizontal lines to output a line. The filtering works per VSA100 chip so the borderline of the SLI bands do not get filtered properly. In SLI mode, you should use 'Normal' which is a 4x1 linear filter.

The 3D Filter Quality is the famous 3Dfx 22bit post filter which is only useful in 16bit color mode.

I'll make sure that the next release of Glide prevents this.

-KoolSmoky
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mcmagostini
Initiate

Brazil


64 Posts

Posted - 22/04/2004 :  20:53:44  Show Profile  Visit mcmagostini's Homepage  Send mcmagostini an ICQ Message  Click to see mcmagostini's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
@daniel
@koolsmoky

Hey guys, I REALLY appreciate your answers.
Very nice from you both whom i admire and respect.
You could see i'm a 3dfx lover also and like to see
my baby 55k at its best form always.

@daniel
I may try to compile using the s3tc->fxt1 hack
and see what happens. I'll post the result here
when i get to do it.

Thank you very much and keep up the AWESOME work! ;)

3dfxSalutes,
Matheus

AmigaMerlin / SFFT / MesaFX
Sempron64 3000+, 512MB DDR400 2,5-3-3-11
Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Rev 3100)
ASUS K8N4-E
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Ragnarok72
Novice

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 23/04/2004 :  20:27:10  Show Profile  Visit Ragnarok72's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

quote:
Originally posted by mcmagostini

Hi folks.

Why is that in Quake3 , for instance, i get 138 FPS with the 3dfx
OGL ICD and "just" 114 with the Mesa one at the same configuration
driver-wise and game wise?
Quake has no notion of FXT1 texture compression. The 3dfx ICD maps S3TC (that quake uses) to FXT1, as opposed to Mesa, which does FXT1 for FXT1 and S3TC for S3TC. Therefore, Quake doesn't use texture compression with Mesa. Actually, Kool wrote a patch to cheat S3TC with FXT1 in Mesa, but it's not embedded into the public releases.




I think that might explain the weird slowdown problem I get with MesaFX and RtCW, since that's a Quake-engine based game. I'm even more sure of it because both the 3Dfx .0761 ICD and the WGL one included with the game don't have the slowdowns, and in both cases I have S3TC enabled in the options.
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ps47
Skilled

Slovakia
1463 Posts

Posted - 29/04/2004 :  19:33:58  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
I have tried mesafx with my voodoo2,the tested game was return to castle wolfenstein.the game runs and looks great with medium/normal settings and 800*600 resolution(25-35 FPS,sometimes drops to 15-20).however,I have encountered a bug,with lightning set to light map (high),the shiny surfaces (like steel or gold objects) are not displayed correctly (see the pic).no such problems with my voodoo3.


Image Insert:

68.6 KB



Image Insert:

66.01 KB

any ideas?

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2004 :  13:25:41  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ps47

I have tried mesafx with my voodoo2,the tested game was return to castle wolfenstein.the game runs and looks great with medium/normal settings and 800*600 resolution(25-35 FPS,sometimes drops to 15-20).however,I have encountered a bug,with lightning set to light map (high),the shiny surfaces (like steel or gold objects) are not displayed correctly (see the pic).no such problems with my voodoo3.
So, you say it's working differently with the same Mesa, but with different cards? Which version of Mesa have you tried exactly? And what Glide were you using for each card?


Regards,
Daniel Borca
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ps47
Skilled

Slovakia
1463 Posts

Posted - 30/04/2004 :  20:36:36  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
I am using the same mesa for both cards (ver.14040),and the Voodoo3_4_5 glide3x.dll for the voodoo3,and the Voodoo2 glide3x.dll for the voodoo2.apart from that,the game is fast and looks very good.my voodoo2 condump:
Download Attachment: voodoo2mesa.doc
6.96 KB

btw,hitman contracts (hitman3) wont work with mesafx,it just crashes to desktop(I will try to get an error log for you).seems like the hitman1/2/3 engine has real problems with mesafx,and thats too bad,hitman2/3 would benefit from mesafx..

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables

Edited by - ps47 on 30/04/2004 20:42:13
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2004 :  08:18:28  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I am breaking the (new) rule, and post a new Mesa release on my situ -- Amigamerlin is busy these days. Nothing spectacular, only wgl* sh!t fixes. I tested Hitman2 demo, and it works now.

@ps47
Might be a Glide bug, then?

-Edit: I was censored so I had to redo the post

Regards,
Daniel Borca

Edited by - dborca on 07/05/2004 08:21:16
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mcmagostini
Initiate

Brazil


64 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2004 :  10:01:33  Show Profile  Visit mcmagostini's Homepage  Send mcmagostini an ICQ Message  Click to see mcmagostini's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Sorry but i lost the link to your site.
Coul you post it here again?
I'd like to download the new Mesa.

Thx
VoodooSalutes
Matheus

AmigaMerlin / SFFT / MesaFX
Sempron64 3000+, 512MB DDR400 2,5-3-3-11
Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Rev 3100)
ASUS K8N4-E
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Amigamerlin
Average

Italy


163 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2004 :  11:06:03  Show Profile  Visit Amigamerlin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi guys sorry for the delay; new MesaFx 6.1.0.4 are available for downloading on www.3dfxzone.it home page.
Bye

Amigamerlin
3DFXZONE MODERATOR
Powerd By Voodoo5 6000
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2004 :  12:18:41  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mcmagostini

Sorry but i lost the link to your site.
Coul you post it here again?
I'd like to download the new Mesa.


Google(dborca) -> I'm feeling lucky!

http://www.geocities.com/dborca/

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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mcmagostini
Initiate

Brazil


64 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2004 :  13:05:29  Show Profile  Visit mcmagostini's Homepage  Send mcmagostini an ICQ Message  Click to see mcmagostini's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Thx Daniel ;)
I should never forget now. :D
I had tried with you real name to no avail =(

Thx Amiga for the upload.

VoodooSalutes
Matheus

PS: a little off. I'm eager to see d3d core debug on win winXP by kool.

AmigaMerlin / SFFT / MesaFX
Sempron64 3000+, 512MB DDR400 2,5-3-3-11
Voodoo5 5500 PCI (Rev 3100)
ASUS K8N4-E
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