Currently both VControl and VooDoo5 Overclocker set the frequency only on the first VSA100. I checked this with SoftIce.
So if you are trying to overclock, the card will still run rest of the chips at factory settings. You wil see only a marginal improvement in speed, since the card will run as fast as it's slowest VSA100.
Let me know if anyone has time to look at this.
Hank
This sounds like music to my ears and produces a big grin on my face :D
Does this also apply to the V5 5500?
This explains perfectly why I didnt get any improvement when overclocking the 6000. And I thought she still isnt maxed out on a P4-2800...
QuoteOriginally posted by hanksemenec
Currently both VControl and VooDoo5 Overclocker set the frequency only on the first VSA100. I checked this with SoftIce.
So if you are trying to overclock, the card will still run rest of the chips at factory settings. You wil see only a marginal improvement in speed, since the card will run as fast as it's slowest VSA100.
Let me know if anyone has time to look at this.
Hank
Ciao Hank ;)
Vcontrol come from koolsmoky and I think he can fix it.
I'll FWD this request to him and obviously I'll keep you informed about.
Ciao ;)
Two questions:
Does this also apply to the V5 5500/5000
Is this also the case with adjusting the registry value (grxclk or some such thing)?
This does apply to Voodoo5, changing tghe value of "Grxclock" only OC's one of the VSA-100's, this makes a difference to FSAA performance but under normal operation does not effect framerate. In order to OC a Voodoo5 you need to hack the BIOS "pllCtrl1" register and reflash to give the desired core/memory clock speed for both VSA-100's. This does work.
-Edit: After further testing I'm convinced that flashing the BIOS won't do it either. The second VSA-100 and it's 32MB of SDRAM (The SLI slave) doesn't seem to have it's speed set by the firmware or software, it seems to locked at 166MHz, which is obviously the stock hardware clock output. The BIOS must be solely for the SLI master chip. SLI must be enabled in software, (drivers). In other words when you're booting up, in safe mode, DOS etc, SLI is not functioning.
interesting topic!
this explains perfectly why a soft overclock doesnt show up in fillrate gain like expected, while a bios overclock does.
beta, i can't confirm the edit part of your message. i have the bios modded to 178 mhz, that gives me a multitexturing fillrate of 630 mTexels in 3dmark2000. i "underclocked" back to stock 166mhz with vcontrol and got 585 mTexels.
take this as 100% and do a quick calculation, voila 108% of clock gives 108% fillrate.
if i overclock via vcontrol up to 190mhz i get 635mTexels, same as with everything else higher or equal than 181mhz, maybe my bios settings are 181mhz, dont remember excactly.
a thought: why would they use an extra PLL for the secondary VSA100 and the other half of ram? i see no reason to do so.
edit: checked my bios, it clocks to 178,9mhz so i dont know why the fillrate improves till 181mhz [?]
Quotethis explains perfectly why a soft overclock doesnt show up in fillrate gain like expected, while a bios overclock does.
Thats sort of what I though initially...
Quotebeta, i can't confirm the edit part of your message. i have the bios modded to 178 mhz, that gives me a multitexturing fillrate of 630 mTexels in 3dmark2000. i "underclocked" back to stock 166mhz with vcontrol and got 585 mTexels.
take this as 100% and do a quick calculation, voila 108% of clock gives 108% fillrate.
if i overclock via vcontrol up to 190mhz i get 635mTexels, same as with everything else higher or equal than 181mhz, maybe my bios settings are 181mhz, dont remember excactly.
Have you tried Quake3 benchmarking? See if you get the same sort of result. Direct3D is a different subsystem and SLI AA is handled differently when using this API.
Quotea thought: why would they use an extra PLL for the secondary VSA100 and the other half of ram? i see no reason to do so.
Due to it being effectively another "card" rendering alternate scanlines, this device and it's memory is only actually used when Direct3D or Glide are initialised the rest of the time it is idle.
Quoteedit: checked my bios, it clocks to 178,9mhz so i dont know why the fillrate improves till 181mhz [?]
eh? it's late... [xx(]
-Edit: wow it must have been...
Anyway with a pllCtrl1 of aprox 182.8 the card shows a definate SLI mode fps gain, at 182.5: lower fps than at 166??!
I've already sent a vsa100 oc tool to Hank. Sit tight and wait for the results. :D
-KoolSmoky
QuoteOriginally posted by koolsmoky
I've already sent a vsa100 oc tool to Hank. Sit tight and wait for the results. :D
-KoolSmoky
Image Insert:(https://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/../public/uploaded/cosworth6k/2004431421_allah.gif)
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Glide has kindly put the VSA100 OC tool up for downloads.
Grab it here: https://www.3dfxzone.it/news/reader.php?objid=261
Besure to read the docs before using it.
Thanks for bringing this to light Hank!
Enjoy!
KoolSmoky
that was fast, thx koolsmoky!
tool is working fine on my 5500 :D
Wow,
Thank you very much. The tool works like a charm. All 4 chips on V5 6k are getting programmed :).
Thank You,
Hank
QuoteOriginally posted by koolsmoky
I've already sent a vsa100 oc tool to Hank. Sit tight and wait for the results. :D
-KoolSmoky
I, and quite a few other posting in this topic, Would be interested to know how this was achieved? Unrevealing binaries disclose nothing of course... ;)
Like you're gonna get the source, lol (http://mapage.noos.fr/gc12/x3dfx/rolleyes2.gif)
QuoteOriginally posted by lecram25
Like you're gonna get the source, lol (http://mapage.noos.fr/gc12/x3dfx/rolleyes2.gif)
I don't think beta is looking for the exact source, just to know how kool got it working, like what registry values it changes or something. And seeing how this really is a community, sharing such information shouldn't really be that big of a deal, it would benefit all.
lol, ok. Let's all ask amiga for the source of his driver set.:)
I mean come on, this is a community afterall...
(http://mapage.noos.fr/gc12/x3dfx/rolleyes2.gif)
Can anyone run some decent tests?
I ran 3DMark 2001se 330 but I don't think I got a conclusive answer:
Standard 166MHz: 2564
V5 OC 1.2 170MHz: 2624
VSA OC 1.00 170MHz: 2620
As you can see, there's no difference between the older overclocking utility and the new one. I also tried Q3A but that didn't show any difference. :(
Test by pandyno: (GLexcess)
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Voodoo6k@default vs voodoo6k@195 Mhz.
Want to make OC Tools, eh?
The overclocking is achived by programming the PllCtrl1 register of all VSA100 chips. Not a registry thing. There is clear improvement with fillrate. Try running GLExcess in 640x480 32bpp mode.
The reason why V.Control only overclocks the first chip is because I had assumed that the slave chips were always snooping the master, which wasn't the case with Windows Desktop mode.
-KoolSmoky
Great work Koolsmoky, thanks once again for your hard work! :D
Just a quick question though, does anyone know if the official 3dfx overclocking tool just does one VSA or both? [?]
@beta
Kool is right! Actually, that pllCtrl1 is present on all Voodoo GPUs; as a consequence ALL Voodoos can be overclocked using this technique.
@Phalanx
Those beasts are rarely fillrate limited, anyway! Overclocking them will gain little to no improvement in real world apps, which require fast T&L. Otherwise, only synthetic benchmarks will show the diff (and perhaps a few degrees in room temperature).
QuoteOriginally posted by koolsmoky
Want to make OC Tools, eh?
The overclocking is achived by programming the PllCtrl1 register of all VSA100 chips. Not a registry thing. There is clear improvement with fillrate. Try running GLExcess in 640x480 32bpp mode.
The reason why V.Control only overclocks the first chip is because I had assumed that the slave chips were always snooping the master, which wasn't the case with Windows Desktop mode.
-KoolSmoky
That was all I wanted to know, thanks! ;)
When I first ran some Q3 timedemo's with pllCtrl1 set effectively to 183MHz (via a bios flash of course) I could tell that this made a difference, as compared to normal software overclock, which made no difference in fps. This is good news indeed and it's good that this has been confirmed and solved. Well done.
@dborca: True that Oc'ing is hardly worthwhile, I only recently coolmodded my Voodoo5 due the thermal epoxy being burnt up badly and the card overheating, (I had never OC'd it either). The stock cooling was never made to last though.
@amp_man: Exactly what I meant, the simple theory or the register/variable used, not the full source code. Hehehe... [:p]
Theory, eh? That's a good one. I look forward to your contribution, perhaps to Linux? I see you are using Mandrake.
-KoolSmoky
don't expect much [:(!] I think beta just wants to be able to do it himself, and not use your prog (or anyone elses) [:p] I don't know if he plans anything for linux or not...
QuoteOriginally posted by koolsmoky
Theory, eh? That's a good one. I look forward to your contribution, perhaps to Linux? I see you are using Mandrake.
-KoolSmoky
I'm pretty certain that Linux already sets the PLL through pllCtrl1 anyway, so no fixing is required in that case.
I may work on a simple overclocker in C or Pascal if I have time. No promises there though. ;)
@amp_man
Thank you. :D
@beta
Accually, the pllCtrl1 register isn't being programmed by the Linux driver and it's using the settings from the BIOS. There is still demanding audience for a Linux Voodoo tweaker so writing one should be worthwhile.
-KoolSmoky
QuoteOriginally posted by koolsmoky
@amp_man
Thank you. :D
@beta
Accually, the pllCtrl1 register isn't being programmed by the Linux driver and it's using the settings from the BIOS. There is still demanding audience for a Linux Voodoo tweaker so writing one should be worthwhile.
-KoolSmoky
lol...
I emailed john, the developer of the linux control prog that nightbird's been throwing around the links to. I think he speaks best for himself:
Quote(*sound of jaw hitting the floor*)
you mean people are -using- this? I posted that stuff like 2 years ago and you're the first person who'se ever even mentioned something to me about it. cool... I'd assumed noone cared anymore ;) although i -still- use my voodoo3 in my desktop, albeit as a second head. very cool.
Hmm, I guess that says how many people really use it. He actually was using it for underclocking, in case you didn't know, to solve some heat issues. I personally think that there really aren't many people who do gaming on linux and voodoos. To be honest, the comparative performance these days of voodoos to the other technology out there makes them not really worthwhile to run on windows games, let alone the usually slower and buggier linux ports of games (hey, I'm just telling it like it is, you all know that it's the sad truth). Gaming on voodoos and linux just isn't feasible, so overclocking them under linux really isn't worth it. I'm sure that beta has much better things to do with his time then create a program that has no real demand and no real point.
It's nice to know there is a tweaker for linux, atleast for ppl who still do use voodoos under linux. You should know that I posted the oc tool so we could all have fun. The 'binaries disclose nothing' crap pretty much ended it.
EDIT: In case you didn't know, I recommended Nightbird to post about his findings.
-KoolSmoky