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osckhar
Average

Spain


334 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  16:49:06  Show Profile  Visit osckhar's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi everybody,

I would like to know, What games still use T-BUFFER ?
(Motion blur, Depth of Field Blur, Soft Shadows, Soft Reflections)

I think there are few games, no?

p.d. I need a list game supported T-BUFFER!

Thanks
Greetings
Oscar


- V6k Team -
¿Leyenda? ¿Mito? ¿Ficción? No... ¡Realidad!



Edited by - osckhar on 16/01/2004 16:50:36

Rampage
Novice

Netherlands
35 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  20:11:05  Show Profile  Visit Rampage's Homepage  Click to see Rampage's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
NFS Underground supports motion blur. A function made by 3dfx's T-Buffer, but i do not know, if it really is possible to turn on with a Voodoo card. (I sold my V5 PCI and am looking for an AGP)

Porsche Owned!!!
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Experienced



540 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  20:56:45  Show Profile  Visit Obi-Wan Kenobi's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well What I do know that Max Payne2 supports also parts of the T-Buffer, like soft reflections, Motion Blur and field of depth, at least I came behind that petty soon.

Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Powered By The Force, x-3dfx & The Jedi Academy
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amp_man
Experienced

545 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  21:21:31  Show Profile  Visit amp_man's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't think the Motion blur from max payne 2 are the same as those supported by the T-Buffer. NFSU does also support some of these functions, although I'm not sure if they are the same as the T-buffer's.
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ps47
Moderator

Slovakia
1461 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  21:35:06  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
the q3 test demo that supports motion blur can be downloaded from falconfly's archive..the newest program that uses t-buffer (motion blur) is basically any n64 emulator that uses the glide64 plugin.glide64 plugin supports motion blur when used wit voodoo5 cards..

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  22:28:02  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You guys are all wrong except ps47...

*sigh*

All these things have been discussed eons ago. First off, there were no games that used the T-buffer effects. Serious Sam was supposed to implement them, but due to a driver issue, croteam did not implement them. There is also the quake3 motion blur demo. This was to demonstrate motion blur on the voodoo 5 6k at some gaming conference (GDC?); a 3dfx engineers coded motion blur into quake3 in 3hrs. Max Payne 2 and NFS Underground do not make use of t-buffer effects. They use pixel shaders to create motion blur, etc. Hence the reason why AA disables once these pixel shaders are enabled (multisampling AA and shaders conflict due to MSAA only anti-aliasing polygons). Another game that implements motion blur is MotoGP2, via pixel shaders, AFAIK...but Elvis has sent me pics of it working on his Voodoo 5 6k, with motion blur.


quote:
NFS Underground supports motion blur. A function made by 3dfx's T-Buffer, but i do not know, if it really is possible to turn on with a Voodoo card. (I sold my V5 PCI and am looking for an AGP)

Also, 3dfx did not create motion blur, lol, nor the other t-buffer effects...these "effects" occur naturally in life. But they are mainly used in movies; this is reason for bridging the gap between pc games and movie, hence the "Cinematic Revolution". 3dfx was only trying to bring cinema and games closer.

[/rant]

*no time to review or check spelling, grammar, etc; i really don't care*

| AMD Athlon XP (Barton) 2800+ @ 3200+ (11x200) | Cooler Master Jet 7 | ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (nForce 2) | Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 | Sapphire ATi Radeon 9500np>9700np | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40GB & 120GB HDD | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers |
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ps47
Moderator

Slovakia
1461 Posts

Posted - 16/01/2004 :  22:59:45  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables
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Raptor
Novice

Slovenia
31 Posts

Posted - 18/01/2004 :  22:12:29  Show Profile  Visit Raptor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Moto GP 2 doesn't support 3dfx's T-buffer. It's motion blur is only happening when in software mode. Lecream, sometimes I just don't know, whoose side are you on. You are against x3dfx --> all about XGI... not that I am too, It's just that I don't argue with 18 or so year kids like Nu and the others, who own the world with their raddy's... and will tear you appart with their "arguments", and you seem not to give a f*** about 3dfx anymore, just like x3dfx. And don't give away "facts" that aren't true. Q3d motion blur demo was made by one guy (in a few hours, that's true), on E3 in 1999, and was made to show full power of 8x FSAA on v56k in 1600x1200... And yes, 3dfx did create these effects as known in the world of 3d g. You can't compare it to motion blur in movies. That would be like if you were playing a game and moving your head left & right very fast... voila natural MB... :)

And Ford Racing 2 has the depth of field support...

Just your ordinary nVidiot hunter
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  00:36:38  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor

Moto GP 2 doesn't support 3dfx's T-buffer. It's motion blur is only happening when in software mode. Lecream, sometimes I just don't know, whoose side are you on. You are against x3dfx --> all about XGI... not that I am too, It's just that I don't argue with 18 or so year kids like Nu and the others, who own the world with their raddy's... and will tear you appart with their "arguments", and you seem not to give a f*** about 3dfx anymore, just like x3dfx. And don't give away "facts" that aren't true. Q3d motion blur demo was made by one guy (in a few hours, that's true), on E3 in 1999, and was made to show full power of 8x FSAA on v56k in 1600x1200... And yes, 3dfx did create these effects as known in the world of 3d g. You can't compare it to motion blur in movies. That would be like if you were playing a game and moving your head left & right very fast... voila natural MB... :)

And Ford Racing 2 has the depth of field support...




3dfx did not create these effects, these effects, like I said earlier, happen in the real world. And what movie directors/producers have done is use these to their advantage in movies. 3dfx was trying to implement these effects into the gaming arena, i.e. to bridge the gap between games and movies...
Of course I can't compare it to motion blur in movies...that's because t-buffer was very preliminary. If 3dfx was still around, the t-buffer effects would have been updated to look more realistic, much like pixel shaders are being "updated", in other words, to make them more life-like...

And about giving away facts that weren't true, I did place a "?" at the end of GDC, because I wasn't too sure.

And about x3dfx and Nu and the others, if you have beef with them, then take it out with them. I don't hate x3dfx, sure I argued with them about XGI, but atm, I'm keeping my mouth shut about the whole thing. I'm a fanboy, but I'm not blind.
And no, I still do like 3dfx...if only to what extent you knew...

| AMD Athlon XP (Barton) 2800+ @ 3200+ (11x200) | Cooler Master Jet 7 | ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (nForce 2) | Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 | Sapphire ATi Radeon 9500np>9700np | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40GB & 120GB HDD | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers |
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amp_man
Experienced

545 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  03:14:36  Show Profile  Visit amp_man's Homepage  Reply with Quote
just like lecram to say that everyone's wrong, then prove me right but like he said, the effects used by these games are produced by pixel shaders, not the T-buffer, since only the old v4/5 cards have t-buffer, but any decent DirectX 9.0 supports pixel shaders.

@lecram, I think they get that motion blur occurs in reality, they are saying the 3dfx introduced it into the 3d gaming world. The entire intent of these is to make games more lifelike, if they didn't occur in real life, well, why would they create them (or more specifically create the ability to display them in 3d applications)?
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InSomNiaN
Average

Australia
120 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  05:53:29  Show Profile  Visit InSomNiaN's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Obi-Wan Kenobi
quote:
Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Good luck trying to find it. I've been searching high and low for quite a while, but without any luck.
Last I heard, someone was going to hack the full q3 or write a patch for it, but never did.

What I wanna know is, ARE THERE ANY GAMES THAT PROPERLY SUPPORT MOTION BLUR FOR THE VOODOO 5? And not those 3dfx demos, or timedemos of any sort. Just a single player game???

***ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!***
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  06:12:46  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by InSomNiaN

Obi-Wan Kenobi
quote:
Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Good luck trying to find it. I've been searching high and low for quite a while, but without any luck.
Last I heard, someone was going to hack the full q3 or write a patch for it, but never did.

What I wanna know is, ARE THERE ANY GAMES THAT PROPERLY SUPPORT MOTION BLUR FOR THE VOODOO 5? And not those 3dfx demos, or timedemos of any sort. Just a single player game???



No, there is no game...

also, I have the q3 motion blur demo, but I'm out of space on my webspace...IIRC, the x3dfx guys had it up on their gaming servers a while back; the multiplayer version that is...

You can pic up the demo here:

http://www.falconfly.de/downloads/Q3_Motion_Blur.zip

| AMD Athlon XP (Barton) 2800+ @ 3200+ (11x200) | Cooler Master Jet 7 | ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (nForce 2) | Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 | Sapphire ATi Radeon 9500np>9700np | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40GB & 120GB HDD | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers |

Edited by - lecram25 on 19/01/2004 06:14:04
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bsarc
Novice

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  06:32:09  Show Profile  Visit bsarc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
umm just for the information all u guys, Motion blur is an accumulation buffer effect.Yes some implement it using shaders. BUT in entriety it is an accumulation buffer effect, for further information try reading the opengl blue book and the red book. Try enabling AA and motion blurring etc, both dont work together. Theoretically any card that uses SGIS_multisample instruction will be able to do t bufferish effects such as motion blur and dof, and SGI_multisample is both for super sampling and multisampling depends on how it is implemented and how the drivers expose it.

read this link for further information

http://www.sgi.com/software/opengl/advanced98/notes/node88.html

quote:
6.4 Blending with the Accumulation Buffer
The accumulation buffer is designed for combining multiple images. Instead of simply replacing pixel values with incoming pixel fragments, the fragments are scaled and then added to the existing pixel value. In order to maintain accuracy over many blending operations, the accumulation buffer has a higher number of bits per color component than a typical color buffer.

The accumulation buffer provides a way to take ``multiple exposures'' of a scene, while maintaining good color resolution. There are a number of image effects that can be implemented with the accumulation buffer to improve the realism of a rendered image [29, 46], including antialiasing, motion blur, soft shadows, and depth of field. To create these effects, render the image multiple times, making small, incremental changes to the scene position (or selected objects within the scene), and accumulate the results.




For information regarding motion blurring with shaders read this article and then download the demo and view it.

quote:
This shader creates a smooth motion-blur effect in two passes. The first pass draws the object normally. The second pass transforms each vertex both with the current frame's transform as well as with the previous frame's transform. The difference between these two points is a per-vertex motion vector. If the dot product of this motion-vector with the vertex-normal is positive, then the vertex faces into the direction of motion and we transform and light it normally. If, however, this dot product is negative, then the vertex faces away from the direction of motion and we transform it with the previous frame's transform. We therefore stretch the object from its old position to its new position on the screen. To enhance the motion-blur look, we also modulate the alpha-component of the diffuse color of vertices facing away from the direction of motion by the length of the motion-vector.





http://developer.nvidia.com/object/motion_blur.html

"That is not dead, which can forever lie.
and with strange eons even death may die. "

Edited by - bsarc on 19/01/2004 06:54:17
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Experienced



540 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  14:22:38  Show Profile  Visit Obi-Wan Kenobi's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by InSomNiaN

Obi-Wan Kenobi
quote:
Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Good luck trying to find it. I've been searching high and low for quite a while, but without any luck.
Last I heard, someone was going to hack the full q3 or write a patch for it, but never did.

What I wanna know is, ARE THERE ANY GAMES THAT PROPERLY SUPPORT MOTION BLUR FOR THE VOODOO 5? And not those 3dfx demos, or timedemos of any sort. Just a single player game???



Well I did find the Motion Blurr Q#A test at Falcon Fly, I suppose it should work fine on my Voodoo5 5500 in my XP 2700 + KT333 system. But I tried to run it on my Rad.9700 Pro, but that didn't get me nowhere. Well maybe it's because of the glide thingy

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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  18:21:05  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

quote:
Originally posted by InSomNiaN

Obi-Wan Kenobi
quote:
Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Good luck trying to find it. I've been searching high and low for quite a while, but without any luck.
Last I heard, someone was going to hack the full q3 or write a patch for it, but never did.

What I wanna know is, ARE THERE ANY GAMES THAT PROPERLY SUPPORT MOTION BLUR FOR THE VOODOO 5? And not those 3dfx demos, or timedemos of any sort. Just a single player game???



Well I did find the Motion Blurr Q#A test at Falcon Fly, I suppose it should work fine on my Voodoo5 5500 in my XP 2700 + KT333 system. But I tried to run it on my Rad.9700 Pro, but that didn't get me nowhere. Well maybe it's because of the glide thingy



Nope, it's the T-buffer thing...you can use eVoodoo to get it running, but you'll keep on getting a t-buffer effects error. The bots will have trails behind them, but they won't be faded like they're meant to be...

| AMD Athlon XP (Barton) 2800+ @ 3200+ (11x200) | Cooler Master Jet 7 | ABIT NF7-S Rev 2.0 (nForce 2) | Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 | Sapphire ATi Radeon 9500np>9700np | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40GB & 120GB HDD | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers |
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Experienced



540 Posts

Posted - 19/01/2004 :  19:02:09  Show Profile  Visit Obi-Wan Kenobi's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lecram25

quote:
Originally posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

quote:
Originally posted by InSomNiaN

Obi-Wan Kenobi
quote:
Quake3Arena also has a motion Blur patch, but I haven't tried that yet, because i can't find it.

Good luck trying to find it. I've been searching high and low for quite a while, but without any luck.
Last I heard, someone was going to hack the full q3 or write a patch for it, but never did.

What I wanna know is, ARE THERE ANY GAMES THAT PROPERLY SUPPORT MOTION BLUR FOR THE VOODOO 5? And not those 3dfx demos, or timedemos of any sort. Just a single player game???



Well I did find the Motion Blurr Q#A test at Falcon Fly, I suppose it should work fine on my Voodoo5 5500 in my XP 2700 + KT333 system. But I tried to run it on my Rad.9700 Pro, but that didn't get me nowhere. Well maybe it's because of the glide thingy



Nope, it's the T-buffer thing...you can use eVoodoo to get it running, but you'll keep on getting a t-buffer effects error. The bots will have trails behind them, but they won't be faded like they're meant to be...



Okay thanx for the tip Lecram25 BTW the E3 Doom3 demo runs on my Voodoo5 LOL

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