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 a geforce FX5200 or a Mentor 128MB GeForce4 MX440
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sps
Novice



19 Posts

Posted - 31/10/2003 :  20:15:26  Show Profile  Visit sps's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i am going to buy a new graphics card. i have 2 options:

1)128MB DDR GeForce FX5200 TV-Out - APGx8
2)128MB GeForce4 MX440 DDR AGPx8 128Bit

i was leaning toward the fx, but it is the entry level card in the geforce fx range, so should i intsead order the mx440?i would like my new card to last longer than my old one(18 months before my tnt2 was phased out of modern games)
Any Advice would be well appriciated.
sps.

Edited by - sps on 31/10/2003 20:18:55

lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  00:10:07  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Negative on the MX and negative on the FX5200...As Gabe Newell said, treat the GeforceFX family as dx8 hardware!
Hell, NEGATIVE ON nVidia!!!
Go for an ATi 9500pro...they should be realy cheap by now. they have the good IQ and running AA and AF give you little to no performance hit...

| AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33GHz | Epox 8RDA+ nForce 2 | 256mb DDR PC2100 | Sapphire ATI Radeon 9500np>9700pro | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40Gig 7200RPM | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks/Creative Labs Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers | Creative IR Remote | WindowsXP Professional SP1 |
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  11:07:08  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. AGP 8x is useless, current card just don't require as much bandwidth as AGP 8x provides.

2. GeforceFX cards are bad! Reason: http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030918/index.html
To sum up the article; GFX cards only perform at about 55% of what an ATi Radeon counterpart performs if you use drivers that work correctly (43.03 < last correct working detonators!!!)
If you'd like to know, these are the counterparts:
ATi - nVidia
Radeon 9200 - GeForceFX 5200
Radeom 9600 - GeForceFX 5600
Radeon 9800 - GeForceFX 5900

Now, as for the MX440; you might as well buy a V5 5500 because the MX440 is one of the worst cards out there today.

My suggestion:
Buy an ATi Radeon 9500 or 9600 if you want a DirectX 9 card.
Buy an ATi Radeon 9100 or 9200 if you want a cheaper card than a 9500 or 9600 but still would like to be able to play todays games.
Note though that the 9100 and 9200 are only DirectX 8 cards!
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sps
Novice



19 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  12:51:02  Show Profile  Visit sps's Homepage  Reply with Quote
hmm,i could get a
Mentor 128MB ATi Radeon 9200SE DDR AGPx8
but i checked the specs, + the mx440 has a higher core clock speed.
however,i suspect the radeon has a higher fill rate.( by 0.1 billion, if my memory is correct)

as for direct x, my tnt2 is a dx 6 card, but still plays 'jedi knight: jedi acadamy' which requires dx 9 or higher, so im not particularly bothered about direct x.

1 thing i am seriously worried about is driver problems concerning ati. can i download any driver from ati.com, or dont some of them work?
thanx,
sps
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  12:54:27  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I believe that's a very old issue. The ATi Catalyst drivers work with every ATi card.
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sps
Novice



19 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  13:38:04  Show Profile  Visit sps's Homepage  Reply with Quote
would dx 9 still work with a 9200?
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  13:41:37  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, though not every DX9 feature would be hardware supported.
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2003 :  18:17:20  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
lol, your tnt does dx6 features, but it's drivers have been brought up to dx9 compatablility...with that said, jkII uses ogl, so there's your dx9 theory out the window...
Now, as far as a gefore4mx, did you know that they perform on the level as a geforce2? Believe it, they do! Btw, the geforce 4mx has no shaders whatsoever...So like Phalanx said...go for a 9500pro, since they only sell for ~$130 atm...

| AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33GHz | Epox 8RDA+ nForce 2 | 256mb DDR PC2100 | Sapphire ATI Radeon 9500np>9700pro | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40Gig 7200RPM | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks/Creative Labs Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers | Creative IR Remote | WindowsXP Professional SP1 |
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amp_man
Experienced

545 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  03:43:30  Show Profile  Visit amp_man's Homepage  Reply with Quote
don't listen to lecram, he's nuts. heck, look at his sig, he's got a 9500np, same as me (haven't updated my sig lately). If you get a red sapphire 9500 non pro (it has to have the RAM in an "L" shape), there's a chance (some say about 50%) that it can softmod, or be modified by drivers, to a 9700pro because the card actually includes all the stuff a 9700pro does, it's just turned off to create a lower model card. don't ask why this is, nobody's really certain...on the other hand, a 9500pro can't be softmodded at all, because it uses a different board design. oh, and a 9500np is $145 on www.allstarshop.com, that's where mine came from.


when the sun goes down, the music turns up...
|Windows XP Pro|Athlon XP 1800+|GeForce2(Radeon 9500 en route)|MSI K7T266Pro2-A|
|768MB DDR 2700 RAM|SonicEdge 5.1 Sound Card|Sony 500 watt 5.1 surround sound|
"In this place all think voodoo ... if you aren't a voodoo user this is not the right place for you, simple and plain." -AmigaMerlin
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  09:55:39  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
don't listen to lecram, he's nuts. heck, look at his sig, he's got a 9500np, same as me (haven't updated my sig lately). If you get a red sapphire 9500 non pro (it has to have the RAM in an "L" shape), there's a chance (some say about 50%) that it can softmod, or be modified by drivers, to a 9700pro because the card actually includes all the stuff a 9700pro does, it's just turned off to create a lower model card. don't ask why this is, nobody's really certain...on the other hand, a 9500pro can't be softmodded at all, because it uses a different board design. oh, and a 9500np is $145 on www.allstarshop.com, that's where mine came from.



And at what point was I wrong? And if you read my post carefully, I told him to get a 9500pro...He's looking at a 5200 or a geforce4mx; if he wants to play any games at decent framerates with AA and AF enabled, he's gonna have to forget nVidia. I think he's gonna have to fork ot at least $130...a 9500pro would run a hell of alot better...hell, a 9500pro can actually run dx9 intensive games with AA and AF enabled...I can't say the same for the 5200 running dx9 intensive games...
So pipe down little boy if you don't know what you're talking about!
No need to flame me!

P.S.: regarding the price...oh I was $40 off, big woop! 9600pros with 256mb go for $143...

| AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33GHz | Epox 8RDA+ nForce 2 | 256mb DDR PC2100 | Sapphire ATI Radeon 9500np>9700pro | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40Gig 7200RPM | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks/Creative Labs Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers | Creative IR Remote | WindowsXP Professional SP1 |
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  11:09:49  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Don't be fooled! 256MB of memory on a videocard is useless! Various benchmarks have shown that 256MB is actually worse sometimes than 128MB. Simply because current games don't need those extra 128MB.
So save yourself some money by buying a videocard with 128MB of memory.

These prices are roughly what you pay for a Radeon in The Netherlands;

$ 80 Radeon 9200
$100 Radeon 9200 Pro
$130 Radeon 9500
$250 Radeon 9500 Pro
$130 Radeon 9600
$150 Radeon 9600 Pro
$250 Radeon 9700
$280 Radeon 9700 Pro
$310 Radeon 9800
$380 Radeon 9800 Pro

Edited by - NitroX infinity on 02/11/2003 11:12:20
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qrazi
Average

Netherlands
214 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  11:37:06  Show Profile  Visit qrazi's Homepage  Reply with Quote
isnt it a real shame that you pay as much for an 9500pro as for an 9700 non pro? i wish video card prices dropped as fast as cpu prices after new cpu's are introduced.... :(

ECS K7s5a@ 147 MHz, Athlon XP 1600+@1825+, Voodoo5 5500 @166 MHz
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  11:42:45  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't really get why the 9500 Pro is worth as much as a 9700.
A 9500 should be worth as much as a 9700 since that's the card you can turn into a 9700(pro).
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sps
Novice



19 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  12:56:11  Show Profile  Visit sps's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ive seen a sapphire 9200 256mb and a sapphire 9200se 128mb at pretty much the same price, + the ure saying the extra 256 mb is useless?!? (actully, the 256mb version is cheaper)

the slight problem with the 9500 is that u cant get it in the uk. ive also seen a 9600se 128 mb, so im confuzed for which card to get.
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NitroX infinity
Average

Netherlands
352 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  18:18:28  Show Profile  Visit NitroX infinity's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Do not get an SE card! They are clocked lower than the normal cards and are not something you want.
Go for a normal card (9x00) or a Pro (9x00 Pro) with 128MB of memory.
If you keep that in mind than all that matters is how much money you can spend.
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lecram25
Average

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2003 :  22:49:16  Show Profile  Visit lecram25's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
I don't really get why the 9500 Pro is worth as much as a 9700.
A 9500 should be worth as much as a 9700 since that's the card you can turn into a 9700(pro).


Don't get confused. Not all 9500np can be turned into a 9700np/pro. It's only the earlier ones that had the red 9700 PCB as well as having the L-shaped memory. Seeing that the 9500pro and the 9700np are the same price, I'd go for the 9700np; 9700np have 8pipes and a 256bit memory bus whilst the 9500pro have the 8pipes and a 128bit memory bus...but seeing that those prices are pretty high, you can get a 9700pro for ~$250...

| AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.33GHz | Epox 8RDA+ nForce 2 | 256mb DDR PC2100 | Sapphire ATI Radeon 9500np>9700pro | Sound Blaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 | 3dfx VoodooTV 200 PCI | Western Digital 40Gig 7200RPM | Pioneer 106s DVD | LG 52x24x52 CDRW | Cambridge Soundworks/Creative Labs Desktop Theater 5.1 DTT3500 Digital Speakers | Creative IR Remote | WindowsXP Professional SP1 |
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