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ps47
Skilled

Slovakia
1463 Posts

Posted - 26/01/2004 :  19:33:13  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
hmm,I have been playing with my voodoo3 and mesafx..and I have noticed this:it looks like mesafx forces true 16-bit (voodoo3 can do 22-bit),resulting in worse image quality-wickedgl looks much better on a voodoo3(I will post pics),but mesa is faster,better,more compatible..is there a way how to fix this(cant see any env var that should help me)..

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables

Edited by - ps47 on 27/01/2004 19:21:56
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Fantasma
Initiate

Spain
59 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2004 :  01:29:45  Show Profile  Visit Fantasma's Homepage  Reply with Quote
How can I change the values in gl_max_texture_size?
Which is the command line?
I can´t use the 512x512 textures sw scaled (with mesafx) because this command still says that they are 256x256

AMD 1800+ xp voodoo3 2000 16Mb 320Mb SDRAM Win 98SE
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2004 :  08:41:53  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fantasma

How can I change the values in gl_max_texture_size?
Which is the command line?
I can´t use the 512x512 textures sw scaled (with mesafx) because this command still says that they are 256x256


Well, basically you
set MESA_FX_MAXLOD=9
This will allow 2^9 textures (512). If you set it to 10 or 11, you'll be able to use 1024 and 2048 textures respectively.
*sigh* I need to write a MesaFX control panel, but... really, how many times should I state I can't stand this win crap!

Eventually, you can make a "run.bat" using notepad, containing the following lines:
--v--
@echo off
set MESA_FX__MAXLOD=9
pause
%1
--^--
(you can put other Mesa environment variables as well)
copy it into gamedir and start your application like this:
run GLExcess
run Quake
or whatever...

PS: you can remove the "pause" line. It is just there so you can read the console output and know whether any error occurs (environment full).

PPS: it seems that [GL]Quake[World] checks the renderer string for "3dfx" and "Voodoo" and forces max texture size to 256. Why? oh, why?

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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ps47
Skilled

Slovakia
1463 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2004 :  18:42:20  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
ok,here goes,image quality comparison:mesafx versus wicked3d(voodoo3,16bit,the game is glwolf3d,a very simple opengl game)

Image Insert:

34.08 KB

the first one is mesafx,the second wickedgl.you can see there is a huge difference in image quality,wickedgl gives almost 32-bit quality,but mesafx is obviously running in true 16-bit mode..is there a way around this or is it just a mesafx limitation..?

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables

Edited by - ps47 on 27/01/2004 18:44:11
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perer
Average

Netherlands


243 Posts

Posted - 27/01/2004 :  21:42:15  Show Profile  Visit perer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
He I thought the o.51g SE already supports Voodoo2/SLI. Know on 3dfxzone's home, you can read mesaFX know support voodoo2. WHat is this all about, is it just the same news or is it a new driver, or just the old one with more xp compatibility and userfriendlyness????
Dborca you tell me.
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Fantasma
Initiate

Spain
59 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  00:49:48  Show Profile  Visit Fantasma's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

quote:
Originally posted by Fantasma

How can I change the values in gl_max_texture_size?
Which is the command line?
I can´t use the 512x512 textures sw scaled (with mesafx) because this command still says that they are 256x256


Well, basically you
set MESA_FX_MAXLOD=9
This will allow 2^9 textures (512). If you set it to 10 or 11, you'll be able to use 1024 and 2048 textures respectively.
*sigh* I need to write a MesaFX control panel, but... really, how many times should I state I can't stand this win crap!

Eventually, you can make a "run.bat" using notepad, containing the following lines:
--v--
@echo off
set MESA_FX__MAXLOD=9
pause
%1
--^--
(you can put other Mesa environment variables as well)
copy it into gamedir and start your application like this:
run GLExcess
run Quake
or whatever...

PS: you can remove the "pause" line. It is just there so you can read the console output and know whether any error occurs (environment full).

PPS: it seems that [GL]Quake[World] checks the renderer string for "3dfx" and "Voodoo" and forces max texture size to 256. Why? oh, why?



The thing that happens in quake, happens in this game (CoD) which the only thing that makes me not running the game is the texture size, I have done what you have save, even I have modified the 3dfxtools advanced tweaks to choose the texture size that I want with mesafx but it doesn´t work, it detects that my GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE is 256, if only there were a way to avoid the game detecting it or change the GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE.......
In the config of the game, I have changed it to run it in 16bpp and I have changed to run it in 256x256 textures but it still requires 512.....
Any ideas?

AMD 1800+ xp voodoo3 2000 16Mb 320Mb SDRAM Win 98SE
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  08:16:51  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by perer

He I thought the o.51g SE already supports Voodoo2/SLI. Know on 3dfxzone's home, you can read mesaFX know support voodoo2. WHat is this all about, is it just the same news or is it a new driver, or just the old one with more xp compatibility and userfriendlyness????
Dborca you tell me.


Why?
perer you tell me. I mean, after reding your post for the tenth time, I still have that blur look!

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  08:22:59  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fantasma

The thing that happens in quake, happens in this game (CoD) which the only thing that makes me not running the game is the texture size, I have done what you have save, even I have modified the 3dfxtools advanced tweaks to choose the texture size that I want with mesafx but it doesn´t work, it detects that my GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE is 256, if only there were a way to avoid the game detecting it or change the GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE.......
In the config of the game, I have changed it to run it in 16bpp and I have changed to run it in 256x256 textures but it still requires 512.....
Any ideas?


I don't know how could "3dfxtools advanced tweaks" change Mesa's behavior. Hmph...
Anyway, I slipped an extra underscore to the envvar. To be accurate, it is MESA_FX_MAXLOD.
Here's another idea. If you can run GLExcess and you are able to see loading circles by tweaking MESA_FX_MAXLOD, THEN you know you are doing things right!

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  08:34:29  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ps47

the first one is mesafx,the second wickedgl.you can see there is a huge difference in image quality,wickedgl gives almost 32-bit quality,but mesafx is obviously running in true 16-bit mode..is there a way around this or is it just a mesafx limitation..?


I might be blind, or I might be staring at the wrong monitor, but I can't see a HUGE image difference. The Voodoo post-dithering circuitry (which enables the so-called 22bit -- pwah!) is not handled within Mesa, but Glide. Try to use the SAME Glide when comparing 3dfx' and Mesa DLLs. If you still get a difference, then it must be some bug in Mesa's vertex interpolators, which are not perfect in 5.1. Which brings me to the next post...

PS: let me tell you something about this 22bpp-ish thingie. The true 32bit rendering is actually 24+8 color+alpha. Alpha is an abstract thing (you can't see it). Thus, 22bpp means you would be only 2 bits away from the real mccoy! Which, of course it's not true. It would have been true if 3dfx would have enabled 32bit textures for pre-Napalm cores. Because without it, the post-dithering circuitry can't perform in some miraculous way. Yes, 3dfx jumped the gun many times in the past And, to be honest, the 22bpp issue was not even an original invention. A long time ago I wrote a semi-accelerated driver for Matrox Millennium I (MGA2064W) which had the same feature.

Regards,
Daniel Borca

Edited by - dborca on 28/01/2004 11:00:10
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  08:45:22  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I am releasing rev H today. This might be the last release of this kind. It basically fixes a memory leak, adds GL_TEXTURE_1D and has some other minor improvements. You should be able to download it from my situ, at least until geocities enters DoS for my account. By that time, however, it should get uploaded to 3dfxzone and FalconFly

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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ps47
Skilled

Slovakia
1463 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  11:07:19  Show Profile  Visit ps47's Homepage  Send ps47 an AOL message  Send ps47 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
ok ok,the difference is not huge,but the wickedgl texture is better.the difference is noticable.by running the same glide,you mean using the same glide3x.dll file?well this could be it,I have used the new glide3x with mesafx only..whatever,mesafx got rid of all bugs,so what eh?again many thanks for this driver..

The 3Dfx Helppage and Game Guide / Voodoo3/4/5 enviromental variables
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milen
Novice

25 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  15:55:28  Show Profile  Visit milen's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dborca, will the mesafx work in window if Koolsmokey compleats windowed glide. Mesafx works greate but has one serious bug with opengl initialization which prevent many appliactions from starting
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agrelaphon
Average

Greece


164 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  18:46:03  Show Profile  Visit agrelaphon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ps47,
not all games have worse picture quality with mesafx. SOF2 for instance, is much better looking with mesafx than with wickedgl. (But fps decreases in half !! , so wickedgl is still the better driver for SOF2).
However this is not the case with RTCW, where you get an increase in quality and in performance. All with voodoo3 of course. Maybe that game you tested is old?
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perer
Average

Netherlands


243 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  19:26:44  Show Profile  Visit perer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
About my blurry post: I am Dutch so I am not a perfect Englishman
, and to with releasing mesaFX 0.51H it clears up a lot with me.
But one more question. In a other mesaFX package there was a installer Mesa-FX.exe which you have to use with every game, my question know is do I have to do the same with version H.
My instinct says yes but I dunno know for sure.
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Ragnarok72
Novice

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2004 :  20:00:33  Show Profile  Visit Ragnarok72's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

I am releasing rev H today. This might be the last release of this kind. It basically fixes a memory leak, adds GL_TEXTURE_1D and has some other minor improvements. You should be able to download it from my situ, at least until geocities enters DoS for my account. By that time, however, it should get uploaded to 3dfxzone and FalconFly



Memory leak?! There was a memory leak?! Where? I don't remember seeing a memory leak anywhere.... ok, that was a bad pun.

Oh, and I have one last question about MESA_FX_IGNORE_CMBEXT. Originally, you said it was set up like "MESA_FX_IGNORE_CMBEXT=y", where "y" means we could use any value. Well, does that mean sticking ANY, and I mean ANY value in there, enables it? Or would setting it to "0" (zero) disable it?
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