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 Voodoo5 FSAA in DOS games?
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2004 :  13:05:54  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi, sorry if I sound stupid, but I'm really new in this 3DFX stuff.

See, I just bought 2 x Diamond Monster 3D II (SLI) for playing old, DOS games (I'm an old geezer in PC gaming) like JetFighter III, Tomb Raider 1, and Descent 1 in pure DOS, using 3DFX acceleration.

Still, I read alot about Voodoo5 FSAA, and noticed a thing: somewhere in review I read that FSAA works with existing games and applications. My question is: does FSAA works for DOS games using pure DOS games?

IIRC Jetfighter III (unlike Tomb Raider) doesn't use DOS GLide, instead it acesses 3DFX directly. Can we use FSAA for Jetfighter III (probably by setting certain DOS parameters?)

Also, I'm concerned about backward compatibility issues with DOS games. If I buy Voodoo5, should I keep my existing Monster 3D II to play DOS games?

Many thanks. I'm really new, but I hope spending time here could give me better knowledge on 3DFX stuff.

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


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r21vo
Average

Latvia


294 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2004 :  13:57:06  Show Profile  Visit r21vo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
FSAA doesn't work on pure DOS games because they doesn't use d3d/ogl/glide, but i guess, theorically it could be possible.


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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2004 :  15:02:55  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by r21vo

FSAA doesn't work on pure DOS games because they doesn't use d3d/ogl/glide, but i guess, theorically it could be possible.



So am I correct if assuming that FSAA doesn't work on 3DFX-patched DOS games (like Jetfighter III) because those games are accessing the Voodoo chip directly, instead of using API's like GLide?

IIRC I read somewhere that Jetfighter III does not use GLide, but it accesses the 3dFX directly. Am I correct?

But how about DOS Glide? Doesn't Tomb Raider uses DOS GLide? How about games that using DOS GLide? Does FSAA work on them?

Thanks.

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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Manuelson
Average

Italy


111 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2004 :  23:25:17  Show Profile  Visit Manuelson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i can't answer to you, but i can tell you that without control panel, the FSAA is pratically impossible, DOS is not multitasking, he remembers only a few basilar things like audio card cd rom and mouse config..
maybe with a patch for each game it could be possible..
but who would be mad doing this?

sorry for the english..i understand all, but cannot write clearly..

Powered by ALL Voodoo..
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SuperFurryFurryThing
Average

385 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2004 :  00:43:07  Show Profile  Visit SuperFurryFurryThing's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tomb Raider had a specific patch for voodoo cards, voodoo 1's as I recall it improved the graphic quality. I seem to recall playing it.

SFFT
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2004 :  09:13:16  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Manuelson

i can't answer to you, but i can tell you that without control panel, the FSAA is pratically impossible,

it all boils down to the right environment variable.

quote:
DOS is not multitasking, he remembers only a few basilar things like audio card cd rom and mouse config..

the issue has nothing to do with multitasking, nor the ability to handle mouse (which is event-driven) / audio (which is DMA-based)

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2004 :  12:12:16  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

quote:
Originally posted by Manuelson

i can't answer to you, but i can tell you that without control panel, the FSAA is pratically impossible,

it all boils down to the right environment variable.



So are you saying, with correct environment variable, 3DFX DOS games like Tomb Raider 1 or EF2000 V2.0 (the DOS version, which supports either Rendition Verite or 3DFX), can actually use FSAA in Voodoo5??


quote:
Originally posted by dborca
quote:
DOS is not multitasking, he remembers only a few basilar things like audio card cd rom and mouse config..

the issue has nothing to do with multitasking, nor the ability to handle mouse (which is event-driven) / audio (which is DMA-based)




Now, back to DOS 3DFX issues: They told me there are two types of DOS 3DFX games: the ones that use DOS GLide and the ones that access the hardware directly. Is this information correct?

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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Manuelson
Average

Italy


111 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2004 :  13:12:13  Show Profile  Visit Manuelson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
thank you daniel for the clear explication..i have a bad knowledge of dos, sorry..when i used it I was 13..many years ago.. ;-)

hovewer, if it's only a matter of variables, the FSAA could be implemented also in dos? is a good news, now the question is: "who will do?" sincerely, if i had the knowledge to do this, (absolutely not) I would not waste my time to do this work, it would be only an "exercise of style"..

obviously this is only mine personal opinion..i hope that no-one would "take bad" about it..

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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2004 :  17:16:11  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
@Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
the FSAA is done inside Glide. the key to enable it is to find the trigger (the environment variable that is interpreted by Glide in order to activate FSAA). it shouldn't be so much work. SSTH3_SLIAA_CONFIGURATION can be a start.

for those games that handle 3dfx hw directly, is almost impossible.


@Manuelson
no problem!

however, for glide-based games, is no work at all. it can be done by non-programmers, too.


as a side-note...
i will release a GLQuake1 patch to illustrate FSAA capabilities of Glide3x via Mesa (yes, it will run in plain DOS mode and/or Win9x DOS box). perhaps a few other games...

Regards,
Daniel Borca

Edited by - dborca on 06/12/2004 17:20:59
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2004 :  04:07:59  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

@Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
the FSAA is done inside Glide. the key to enable it is to find the trigger (the environment variable that is interpreted by Glide in order to activate FSAA). it shouldn't be so much work. SSTH3_SLIAA_CONFIGURATION can be a start.



By "environment variable", do you mean DOS evironment variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT?



quote:
Originally posted by dborca
for those games that handle 3dfx hw directly, is almost impossible.



Thanks. A DOS 3DFX games I know to handle 3DFX directly is JetFighter III. I'm not sure about Tomb Raider 1, though. Anyway, does anyone know which DOS games accessing 3DFX directly and which games using DOS GLide? Is there a website about this?




quote:
Originally posted by dborca
@Manuelson
no problem!

however, for glide-based games, is no work at all. it can be done by non-programmers, too.


as a side-note...
i will release a GLQuake1 patch to illustrate FSAA capabilities of Glide3x via Mesa (yes, it will run in plain DOS mode and/or Win9x DOS box). perhaps a few other games...




That would be cool.

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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dborca
Average

Romania


425 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2004 :  08:36:15  Show Profile  Visit dborca's Homepage  Send dborca a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

By "environment variable", do you mean DOS evironment variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT?

yup!

quote:
A DOS 3DFX games I know to handle 3DFX directly is JetFighter III. I'm not sure about Tomb Raider 1, though. Anyway, does anyone know which DOS games accessing 3DFX directly and which games using DOS GLide? Is there a website about this?

someone else has to answer here, as i really dunno.

quote:
quote:
i will release a GLQuake1 patch to illustrate FSAA capabilities of Glide3x via Mesa (yes, it will run in plain DOS mode and/or Win9x DOS box). perhaps a few other games...

That would be cool.


pretty soon now.

Regards,
Daniel Borca
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2004 :  12:20:16  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dborca

quote:
Originally posted by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

By "environment variable", do you mean DOS evironment variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT?

yup!

Where could I find references for environment variable settings for Voodoo5? (including FSAA-related link)






quote:
Originally posted by dborca
quote:
A DOS 3DFX games I know to handle 3DFX directly is JetFighter III. I'm not sure about Tomb Raider 1, though. Anyway, does anyone know which DOS games accessing 3DFX directly and which games using DOS GLide? Is there a website about this?

someone else has to answer here, as i really dunno.



Tomb Rider aside, what DOS games you know supporting 3DFX through DOS GLide? (Probably Hind or iF16?) Thanks.

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2004 :  12:23:21  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

quote:
Originally posted by dborca

quote:
Originally posted by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

By "environment variable", do you mean DOS evironment variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT?

yup!





Where could I find references for environment variable settings for Voodoo5? (including FSAA-related link)




Sorry typo. I mean FSAA-related parameters.

VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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Flash
Novice

Russia
45 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2004 :  20:09:03  Show Profile  Visit Flash's Homepage  Send Flash an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
I can run only one DOS Glide game - Extreme Assault. And FSAA 8x works fine :)
But i can't run Shadow Warrior, Carmageddon or Descent 2 - black screen with yellow dot or blue horizontal stripes and nothing more... :(

Oh. Forgot Dreams to reality - it works in single chip mode

Can you stop the hurricane ?
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman
Average

Indonesia
121 Posts

Posted - 13/12/2004 :  14:07:16  Show Profile  Visit Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash

I can run only one DOS Glide game - Extreme Assault. And FSAA 8x works fine :)
But i can't run Shadow Warrior, Carmageddon or Descent 2 - black screen with yellow dot or blue horizontal stripes and nothing more... :(

Oh. Forgot Dreams to reality - it works in single chip mode



Is it because FSAA, or those games simply won't work with Voodoo5? How about Voodoo5 compatibility with DOS Glide games?

After reading some articles on the internet, I got the impression that compatibility problem for DOS Glide games was started from Voodoo2. Thus, there are many DOS Glide games that works with Voodoo Graphics but won't work with Voodoo2. On the other hand, Glide games (be it DOS or Windows) that work with Voodoo2 should always work with Voodoo5. Am I correct about this? Please confirm.

The reason I'm asking such question is because I'm purchasing both 2xVoodoo2 SLI (Monster 3D) and Voodoo5. I buy Voodoo2 to maintain compatibility with DOS Glide games.

For compatibility with DOS Glide games (such as Jetfighter III, Archimedean Dynasty, etc), should I:
- keep the Voodoo2?
- sell the Voodoo2 and look for Voodoo Graphics instead?
- just play the DOS Glide games using Voodoo5, because it's compatible with all Glide titles (DOS and Windows)?

Thanks





VOODOO LIVES FOREVAH!!

Delenn is the hottest sci-fi character ever.

The Galactic Empire vs the Borg vs the Goa'ulds vs the A'millans vs the Trollish Imperium vs the Ancient Guardians
The Phoenix War


Never buy a LiteOn CD Writer. Ever.
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Flash
Novice

Russia
45 Posts

Posted - 25/12/2004 :  03:11:40  Show Profile  Visit Flash's Homepage  Send Flash an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

Is it because FSAA, or those games simply won't work with Voodoo5? How about Voodoo5 compatibility with DOS Glide games?
[quote]
It's not FSAA, i can't run those games with V5 or V4 (and Voodoo3 too)

After reading some articles on the internet, I got the impression that compatibility problem for DOS Glide games was started from Voodoo2. Thus, there are many DOS Glide games that works with Voodoo Graphics but won't work with Voodoo2. On the other hand, Glide games (be it DOS or Windows) that work with Voodoo2 should always work with Voodoo5. Am I correct about this? Please confirm.
Not exactly. Shadow Warrior works fine with Voodoo2 but shows only horizontal blue stripes with Voodoo3 or V4/5
99.9999% of Windows glide2x games will work flawless with Voodoo4-5.
It looks like glide2x.ovl for Voodoo3 and up is broken (and Extreme Assault uses some internal way to access 3Dfx hardware so there's no problems).

So if you want to play DOS glide games,best solution is another machine with Voodoo2.
For newer Windows games (GLQuake,Q2,Q3,Turok and Unreal engine games of course) Voodoo5 is much better.

The reason I'm asking such question is because I'm purchasing both 2xVoodoo2 SLI (Monster 3D) and Voodoo5. I buy Voodoo2 to maintain compatibility with DOS Glide games.

For compatibility with DOS Glide games (such as Jetfighter III, Archimedean Dynasty, etc), should I:
- keep the Voodoo2?
- sell the Voodoo2 and look for Voodoo Graphics instead?
- just play the DOS Glide games using Voodoo5, because it's compatible with all Glide titles (DOS and Windows)?

Thanks







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